You cannot paste images directly. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. My other son fired one shot and handed it back. In one or two strokes, the bullet is formed ready for dip lubing. load is 4.4 grains for 38 special and 5.0 grains is a +P load. How Do I Choose Good Self-Defense Ammo For My Handgun? The load you use will be up to your gun. An early Les Baer .45 knotted a group of the lead SWCs into a tight 1.3-inch group, while an M&P .45 did 1.25 inches. Going up to 3.9 Gr for +P. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. And.those Hornady 158 HPs are easy to reload but I have never had one open up in a varmint of any sort. Im not recommending that you carry the Bullseye load, but dont feel as if you are going to tactical purgatory for enjoying this load, either. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. 1.455 in. 5 are good choices. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. Caveat: I have decided that I want to be prepared for threat scenarios that include stopping a terrorist or spree-killer (the odds of which I fully recognize is statistically zero). Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. A GI surplus 1911 that puts most loads into dinner-plate sized groups cut 3.8 inches with the classic recipewhich is probably the only time Ive gotten excited about an almost four-inch group! Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. Never got around to trying the T grips. I go with the cheap and easy shake and bake technique that requires only plastic Glad container with a lid, handful of black 6mm BBs and old toaster owen. I may have to rethink my plan. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. 10. (bullseyeforum.net). As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. For best accuracy in slow fire shooting, you may want to raise gun before every shot. Hodgdons Clays, International, Universal and HP38 are good choices. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. Do you folks think a start at 3.0 gr and work up from there with a 125 gr bullet would be a safe load. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. I first started reloading 40+ years ago at a Lee Loader in .38 Special for a brand new Smith & Wesson Model 66 I had just purchased. 38 Special 17,000 These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. Thanks for the start load Power Pistol will run lower pressures for the same velocity than W-W 231. I load my 38 target ammo to 3.5 grainsand my self defense 38 to 3.8 grains, when using 158 grain bullets (and Bullseye). I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. I was just trying to get a general consensus of what other guys were using. They are reliable accurate and deadly. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. Im not a hoarder and I dont keep them, but I am detailed in my process. accuracy. You are absolutely correct. ,I looked at Speer data, nothing there. And, oh yeah. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. It'll look funky, but it will shoot. Be careful about published sources (and doubly so about internet sources), regarding maximum loads for the 38 special. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. The best part about this is that not only do you never really lose your fired cases, but you they are always in great condition. Unlike the author, I did *not* keep records, I cant even imagine how many rounds I loaded, almost 100% .357 magnum, since that was all I shot. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. I load rounds for my wife to shoot @ Win 231 4.0 to 4.3 gr. 9.) As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). Like both the .38 and the .44 spl. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! Where many shooters quickly tire of even standard-pressure .38 in the little five-shooters, the wadcutter invites cylinder after cylinder of practice. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . Its just two lubed balls on top of each other with the top ball roll crimped just past the hemisphere. I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. 38 spl.s. The cowboy loads would be good choices as listed, since these ARE reduced loads for that sport, where usually just hitting a metal plate to make a sound is all that is required of the round. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. My hand ached for a week. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. I've been reading about this. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. Most notably the lighter weight bullets. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. I here from quite a few that 3.5 gr of bullseye is a good load for 158 gr lead Bullets for bullseye shooting. Ive tried full metal jacket and the Hornady Action Pistol (HAP) match hollow point in this load, and both ranged from good to great in my nines. I use 3 gr. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. 2, No. Ive long since changed to a press, but that Lee Loader in its cardboard box is still in a storage box for obsolescent reloading gear. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. This produces about 550-650fps from a 1 7/8 barrel and feels like shooting a very powerful .22LR. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. Load it in 38 Special dies. Alliant Pistol/Revolver Load Data: Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. Now, you have to go to a range or have a membership and pay to fill the backstop with lead. 2.9 of Clays is soft enough and dead accurate at 50yds. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. Any clues for powder and starting loads???? I SEE THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT USE THE AMMO FOR D/R. As you move up in loads, you at least need the gas check on the bottom of the bullet to prevent gas melting the lead and fouling the barrel. Most starting .357 reloading powder levels will fall in this .38 +P+ type reload, and the powder being used can be selected (faster or slower) based on barrel length. Load it like Trail Boss. Times across steel plate racks and many of my standard drills with the 200-grain SWCs rival my best easy-shooting 9mm results. Winchesters 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. I would add that the firearm mentioned, a Model 27 S&W revolver is a very durable gun, intended for the hotter loading of .357 Magnum. You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. My Reloading Manual for .38 Special has plenty of data for 125 gr JHP, and 125 gr JFP for Scot Powders/Vhitavuori, but nothing for Unique/W231/Bullseye. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! Instead, Ive favored things like the K and L frame Smiths (5 screw pre-model 10 and 686 in my case) and Ruger revolvers for higher round count activities. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. No benchrest, nothing but two shakey hands holding the pistol. 5, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company 2 and No. I have found that if you go down too low in charge you will have some ignition issues occasionally. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). I have not loaded plated bullets in quite some time, since they are not useful for my accuracy needs. Josh Wayner is a Michigan native, active competitor, Grand Valley State University alumni, troublemaker, and fiction author. Below, are three loaded rounds. hard cast LSWC's as a target load. September 2015 S.W.A.T. Anyone know where I can download a chart where all the powders burning rates (regardless of manufacturer) is listed. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. Your previous content has been restored. At one time or another, I also owned and shot a M38 Bodyguard (nka the 638), a M37 Chiefs Special (now the 637), a M60 (which is a tad heavier but no more user-friendly), and a couple of others. SASS# 85224. Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. 125: 125: 130: 135: 140: 140: 146: 148: 158: 158: 158: 170 _____ Quick Links Home Load Data Bullet Points: BE SURE TO CHECK OUT & FOLLOW MY INSTAGRAM FEED CONNECT WITH THE 1895GUNNER.COM COMMUNITY . If there is only ONE load, it is MAX. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)Bullet : .357, 125, FP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 20.320 grain H2O = 1.319 cm Cartridge O.A.L. The plated bullets feed nicely through my bullet feeder. I found some data for 148 and 158 gr bullets but no published data on the 125s. 10 for a full cylinder. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. I'm not looking to blow up my old model 10. . In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. I favor the appearance of the C/T load and find it slightly easier to grab and orient in the loading process. For any loads over 900-1,000 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. Ive been loading 158gr FMJ with Titegroup and the only problem Ive had is getting the seating depth right after the die locknut slipped. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. : 1,266 1,472 Press. I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. The flyers tend to be severe. Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. No offense sir but those charges look low for Unique. Seems like everyone is all orgasmic about bigger, faster, more of, etc. 6.) I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. Compac for my little finger to wrap around under the butt. Ethan Johns is a military professional with worldwide experience in specialized units. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). 1995-2022. Hehe, back before Nick skimmed down. Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! This load is in the general velocity bracket with most generic or bulk box 115-grain loads and zings over my chronograph at 1,125 to 1,140 fps from a Glock 17, depending on bullet style. Dont know where #1 Buckshot can be found, but the Speer shot cups and UNIQUE powder currently easy enough to find. Your email address will not be published. 38 Special, all bullet weights Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source 110gr JHP! Depends on what kind of load you're after. 4.0 gr. JHP, 125 gr. These loads are for my wife's revolver. I reached an interesting number the other day. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. The jump straight to relatively hot GI hardball challenged many students, and failure to meet standards meant being dropped from the course. Really important to have a chrono if you're going to work up loads When I first bought my chrono, I was amazed at how HOT my loads were - unnecessarily. Interesting. Biggest problem I had was the lubricating cases for sizing and then cleaning them afterwards, I guess grit was somehow scratching the cases after getting stuck in the lube. BrianEnos.com This pistol uses the .38 Special with a Remington wadcutter bullet seated flush with the case mouth. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck.. have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. Its the only gun that has appreciated in value (as long as you ignore inflation). I never really set my sights, in a manner of speaking, on the .38 cartridge like I did other rounds. 1.) Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. 2.7 gr. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. 4.0 gr. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. 4.2 gr. Nice thing about reloading is that loads can be tailored for the gun that you are shooting. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. My son asked if I wanted him to help, then fired one shot and handed it back. The .38 ammo is more common to find than the .44 ammo, so that is a big reason to reload the .44. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. Just shows the importance of trying/checking the feel of a gun and if possible, test firing it, before you buy it. My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. Many reloading manuals also list an estimated pressure with a given load. Also, too light loads don't allow the bullet to seal the gases causing problems. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes The floor does not apply for PPC, or the equivalent match for Action Pistol. Ive played with several that I like, but the classic in 9mm is 4.4 grains driving a 115-grain jacketed bullet. of Bullseye, 148 gr lead DEWC and Federal 100 primers. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. And this is a guy who normally trusted nothing but a 45 acp. Only the Model 60 sometimes have factory installed grips that are not worthless. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). Nothing, they dont need any. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. +P? I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. This load tends to clock about 670 feet-per-second (fps) give or take 20, depending on the exact brand of wadcutter and the revolver its fired in. Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. A Tyler T grip would have helped here, but is incompatible w/ factory grips. Maybe its just my age, but I may never shoot a 38 again after discovering the 32. Best to start a little low, and work up slowly with a chrono, though. Groups with these loads ranged from 1.25 inches to just under two inches at 25 yards across a handful of pistols. At belly button range, very nasty load. Shot placement is just as important if not more. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. Reducing consumables (and therefore cost) that much more is definitely appealing to me. Last I looked still available at Brownells. But this piece isnt about the gun, but rather the cartridge. Since we are working with a gun that doesnt have a magazine, we can afford to mess with this dimension at will. LOL. These are light and easy to shoot. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! My Lyman 49th has data for 125 gr JHP and 120 gr LRN. I think the 158 lrn is more accurate then the swc but that's just me. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . Your link has been automatically embedded. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. My Dad has advanced arthritis and could not longer easily work his auto loaders. Hence I carry a semi-auto pistol chambered in .40 S&W. Hornady Your experience is definitely motivation for me to give my J-frame more range time! Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. 100 except where otherwise noted in "remarks" Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. I had enough, The Model 1911 pistol will officially turn 100 years old on May 5, 2011. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. Hi. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. I have several manuals and some say that this load is a low +p, some say it is not, but it is very accurate. Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. 6.) I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. I have read some posts online from people who claim that it makes no difference whether the bullets are swaged or cast; and they can be loaded to the same velocity, but the swaged bullets will lead up a barrel faster because the lead is softer. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! I did 400 rounds in one afternoon on my Hornady progressive. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges youd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. By I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner. Bonus is the CT #305 grips are both large enough to be actually useful, and can use the laser, or turn it off if you dont need the laser. The range (understandably) insisted you shoot their ammunition and the mildest they had was 158 grain LRN standard pressure. You may end up with one "not" clearing the barrel. Also internet references 2009, Copyright. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. Battis, if you go to the very bottom of this page you will see Castpics. 110gr JHP! The reason I love the .38 SPL so much is because its so elastic in function. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. Something like the Ruger GP100 or S&W 686 yup, theyre the best caliber for those size revolvers. Both are excellent fight stoppers. Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. Starting being near 3gr - ish. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. When I finally took the plunge and started handloading (FIRST SHOTS WITH HANDLOADING: How Hard Can It Be? Very forgiving with a straight wall case, and tons of bullet variety. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pick up any current gun magazine and youll be inundated with images of sexy black rifles. .38 brass isnt as common as 9, .40, or .45 brass at the range, but of all the revolver brass you can find its the most plentiful. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Think a lot of people would find that a .44 special or .45 Colt, in a decent revolver, a viable alternate to a pistol. head I use 3.2gr. I haven't used any of those powders but I like faster powders in 38 Special like Titegroup and Clays. Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. Thats what the Cavalry Board asked for over a century ago, and thats what weve got. Home About Partners Contact. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? But one classic target load is not far behind the .38 wadcutter in its own reputation with target shooters: a 200-grain semiwadcutter bottling up 4.6 grains of Bullseye. My guess would be almost identical, straight wall, not high pressure, definitely. Main issue is that the .44 spl. That one Ill keep. Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. Go figure. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. Powders include IMR, Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori, Winchester, Accurate I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. in a belt holster at 4:00. If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. Load with 38 S&W data. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. I have 125 grain jacketed bullets, Bullseye powder and CCI 500 primers. 4.2 gr. They all shot horrible at 25 yards. Installed some wood boot grips, modified them with grooves at the bottom of each side panel, similar to those on Pach. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure.

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