I seriously question if bias will be discreetly worked into this agency and their review of the fire?? People need their jobs, and we all act based on the limited information, training and experience that we have and hopefully rely on others who have diverse backgrounds to supplement where we may lack. Even Congressman from east TN and western NC need to here it. Birmingham City close training ground after fire causes damage Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? My question to the Deputy Super: If the Chimney Tops Fire 2 of Nov 23rd to 28th, 2016 could not have been extinguished before the winds came; and there was plenty of time to act before the winds came; then how come GSMNP fire crews apparently extinguished the first Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 12/13th, 2016? All three incidents have a common denominator. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. Nonetheless, it is obvious to some folks that the NPS did not act aggressive enough on this fire. 1 dead in Gatlinburg fire that affected travel to Smokies This is how the devastating Gatlinburg wildfire erupted overnight By Angela Fritz November 29, 2016 at 1:06 p.m. EST Wildfires raging in the Tennessee resort towns of Gatlinburg and Pigeon. I was surprised that we saw no one at the closed Chimneys parking area early morning when we drove by. First of all I was very concerned when the wildfires started over in North Carolina, in some of the National Forest that border Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Lastly, I would after this last election year never ever put stake into social media as any sort of official news, witness accounts or other fact finding mission. Officials say the road will be closed for an extended period. Thanks for adding more good insight. The actual clifts are small and easily avoided. The American publics outcry owe that much to the those whom lost loved ones, disrupted lives, destroyed both human property and natural resources in Gatlinburg, Tennessee during the Chimney Top 2 wildfire, November, 2016. My vacation cabin in Gatlinburg burn to the ground on November 28. And on top of all that, they have teams that stay and clean up after the fires, repairing dozer and fire lines to reflect natural terrain, knocking down trees that would be a hazard to hikers and hunters, repairing the roads that heavy equipment damaged. This story Im telling is all factual you see I have a problem with anyone exaggerating events as well as lying so I tell the truth regardless of how unpopular it may be. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. Before the forest fires in the southeast this fall, I didnt know very much about wildfire fighting management (other than a bit from a mountain rescue EMT friend in Colorado and a friend that helps with prescribed burns for Georgia Conservancy). Here again, more of a horse and pony show from all officials both state and federal. Politics, as we know can cloud even a clear sunny day!!! http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/cabin-on-creek-and-chimneys-top-2-fire.html, http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/great-chimney-tops-2-fire-science.html. It is very hard and slow to navigate through laurel stands and the thick Tennesee Barbed Wire Briar patches. The Gatlinburg Fire Department was dispatched to the 700 block of Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg at 6:39 a.m. on October 9. What the fire victims need is non-biased experts to analyze the BACKFIRES that the NPS claims they ignited to protect NPS structures. The fire ballooned to more than 17,000 acres when winds stronger than 80 miles per hour carried the fire down the mountain and through Gatlinburg and parts of Pigeon Forge Nov. 28. As for Caf 420, they have plans to rebuild, and their employees will keep their jobs. Ms.Schroer said she was not aware of any actual on-the-ground fire suppression efforts, other than perhaps some work on a distant indirect fireline, until Monday November 28, after the fire had grown large and crossed US Highway 141, the main road into the park. Rippetoe hopes the destruction isnt there much longer and all businesses lost can return. The leafless trees allowed more sunlight to hit the fuel, drying it out even more. There are many many folks who even if cell service were functional could not afford it. Who ever was in charge should loose their job!!! Damage was estimated at. Crews are currently taking down the China Bazaar and Puckers building. Tough questions like, Why did it take so long for community leaders to activate burn bans in spite of the extreme drought conditions, fuel loads, number of arson fires and the regional outbreak of fires, the social nature of this crime, and other related events. By definition, prescribed burning is described as fire applied in a knowledgeable manner to forest and grassland fuels on a specific land area under selected weather conditions to accomplish predetermined, well-defined management objectives, pg 2, http://www.southernfireexchange.org/etc/ITPFISE.pdf. Their inter-agency investigation needs to look at the 1st Chimney Tops Fire of the 12/13th to the 17th of November 2016. When I came out of dr. office, which is located on Middle Creek close to hospital, the atmosphere was eerie. So far, this week's tragic Tennessee wildfires have caused at least seven deaths, injured at least 50 more, and damaged or destroyed over 700 structures, a good portion of them in the city of Gatlinburg. Fire behavior is predictable, based on things such as mentioned in this article; weather, terrain and fuels. Special interest groups and other self serving human beings with other priorities cut budgets. The coolness and the moisture were gone. Very well said Tommy. There may be some validity in the DA doing that, but it sure calls their integrity into question. Case in point, the wildfires in Florida 1998, in which those experts were unaware of or underestimated the burning intensity of the Palm Oils from the Florida flora, which were as flammable liquid fires during those wildfires. At about 5:20 p.m. the fire was discoverednear the top of a steep hill called Chimney Tops not far from where another fire occurred about a week before. However, to expect her to honor the NPS is inappropriate considering reality and her circumstances. Too old to start over, fear it could happen again and they could be in their home like I was, or out and out mistrust of local government. Tommy Kirkland says: The lawsuits from an event like Gatlinburg could go on for decades. That should have been done over Thanksgiving! The IMT reported that the fire had not increased in size over the previous 24 hours and was still listed at 17,006 acres. Beginningat 2 a.m. on Sunday November 27 the relative humidity at Indian Grave dropped,getting as low as 17 percent at 8 a.m. and then lingering in the 20s and 30s until 4 am on Monday November 28. When two juveniles were arrested on December 7 and charged with aggravated arson, many people assumed they had the answer. Shelter locations could have been announced, especially encouraging people to take action during the daylight hours that day so that escaping in total darkness during an inferno of fire or not having the means to do so would not be forced on people, and they could make arrangements for their own safety. Im not saying GRSM made the right or wrong decision, there is just a lot more involved then saying they didnt suppress it promptly. I was truly astounded at how well coordinated the IMT teams are they cover it all, firelines, backburns, aircraft, field communications, weather forecast, community information via meetings/Facebook/Blog page/Twitter with daily updates, pre-evacuation notices when wind events were predicted. Officials said three people were found dead from fires in the Chalet Village area, and one person was discovered dead near a motel on Highway 321. Much needed rainfall is expected on Monday with additional rainfall possible through Wednesday. The fire could have been accidental, or it may have been intentional. We watched the news the rest of evening. Difficult access to safely fight fire, lack of pre-blow up fire management, and extreme drought capped off by an exceptional weather event led to the July 1st, 1998 Farmton firestorm that burned through the rural community where I lived in east central Florida. Until you sit in my seat after 20 years of fire service, making decisions on where to send your firefighters based on their experience levels, you will then realize decisions have trade offs and sometimes Mother Nature over rules you. When peoples towns and lives are at stake, letting a fire burn or hoping to get lucky is a tough sell. We may never really know the truth about this situation just as with so many other current and prominent situations. It is important to look at many facets, evidence and root cause studies so that the issues can be resolved. But fires are getting nastier everywhere and folks keep saying past fire history isnt as good a guide as it used to be. None of our fires escaped, in part because we had some very smart, very experienced people in key positions. Below is a comment I posted from New Sentinel article about Gatlinburg fire, Wildfire Today something that undoubtedly should be investigated as well as compared to their actions of the 23rd to 28th Chimney Tops Fire 2: Officials are evasive and vague about the 1st Chimney Tops Fire. I know for a fact that all humans are not as tuned into Nature as others. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out. Questions are powerful tools, but only when we allow them to be asked, we receive them with an openness and willingness to be vulnerable, and seek to answer them openly and without fear of reprisal. We do have insurance however based on the prices for clean up there it wont go far enough to build back. Anyone can arm chair quarterback incident manager decisions after the smoke clears. Honor those who have risked much to help, indeed. And the list goes on. This lack of serious response is all too obvious. GATLINBURG, Tennessee -- The charges have been dropped against two teens who were accused of starting the wildfires in Gatlinburg last fall. Shame on you. I told her my concerns of fire, traffic, and falling trees blocking flow of traffic were there an emergency. I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. Tennessee wildfire near Gatlinburg prompts evacuations of 11,000 homes What did City officials not understand about the approaching danger? But those heroes should have never been in that situation in the first place. Yes my house burnt along with 520 others in North Chalet Village, village no longer but all foundations. I would suggest that you read over Bills articles on this site regarding NPS releases information about the Chimney Tops Fire 2 and Analysis of wind, vegetation, and air tankers before the fire burned into Gatlinburg. A lot of personnel put forth heroic efforts to save lives and we should all be grateful for that. GFD officials examined the scene and found a body, later identified as Joe Martin Bates, in Suite 4. there is still a nagging question regarding the use of BACKFIRE on the part of the NPS and the Gatlinburg Fires? I can name 14 people who deserved much better! Copyright 2022 WVLT. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway, caused extensive damage to a block of businesses, the city's spokesperson said. The electricity goes out almost everytime there is a high wind. Without sufficient safe zones being created in advance each road was easily blocked either by fire or debris. That didnt work out. So they were more concerned about NPS structures than our homes and lives? The Knox News timeline alone has enough info for several indictments. Bob and Stanton snuck around back roads and made it in a few days earlier than most and found what we were fearing. Also, lots of hills in the area washed to bedrock by cloud burst and slides. Its community and people that have jobs. Firefighting aircraft were not used until helicopters dropped water on the fire Sunday afternoon, November 27 four days after it started. The use of smokejumpers could be part of the plan. There is much opportunity in the Eastern Appalachians to better prepare citizens, towns , leaders and firefighters; To create more fire aware and safe communities. A high-elevation area that possessed the largest unbroken Spruce-Fir forest in the S. Appalachians. Another example from my own experience which has been rocked by bias and blatant failure to receive appropriate support and assistance when asked for; causing issues to occur that were later simply blown way out of proportion with conspired lies in order to protect and cover up the real underlying issues and people. The Chimney Tops Trail led from the highway to the top of the hill. So we can learn by others successes and failures but we must also not hang our hats on them either, because the story is as individual and unique as there are an infinite number of variables. Who will accuse and then fire then? That is when it would have been prudent to announce a pre-evacuation notice for the Gatlinburg area to be ready to evacuate if an evacuation order is announced. Behind the Chimneys is Sugarland Mountain. I went back a few years ago and it was completely different. On Monday, December 5, the Incident Management Team (IMT) on the Chimney Tops 2 Fire that burned from Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) into the Gatlinburg area reported that it has . Incident Mgt. Over 130 sustained injuries, and 1,684 structures have been damaged or destroyed. I learned that it is extremely difficult to manage, rather than suppress, a wildland fire for an extended period of time. I dont have the statistics to prove what you wrote is incorrect, but I am convinced that it is not a fact to say most of the fires that are monitored (as opposed to fully suppressed) escape outside the agencys borders. We stopped long enough to make sure they saw the fire coming and proceeded on down the mountain. Officials will verify renters and lease holders, as needed. Bill, correct me if I am wrong, but aircraft should be on the ground a half hour after sunset? Humble yourselves to the Lord and seek HIS divine help. There are other potential hazards that make unplanned evacuations a danger in that area. All the guy in the truck told us was that they had dug a fire line and were told to wait here. Then another large red pickup came down from Turkey Nest Road and stopped in front of us. Brush fires spread across multiple counties this afternoon in Southwest Florida due to high winds. When did Gatlinburg burn . The fire broke out around 6:30 a.m. at the mall on the Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg. One question I have not seen asked is why any adult would have witnessed children playing with matches and lighting fires especially under the obvious conditions in this situation and 1. not taken immediate action 2. One good place, James, to view an area after a devastating wildfire is adjacent to the Blue Ridge Parkway in and around the 418 milepost-the Graveyard Fields/ Shining Rock Wilderness areas. In addition, officials confirmed that a firefighter was transported to the hospital with minor injuries from the fire but has since been released. You may have a point regarding lawsuits, reported actions and actual actions. There was a yellow glow in the skies which has always been indicative of severe weather where we came from. Especially our local emergency workers and the Park Service. Not to mention all the fallen limbs on the ground beneath them. Can fire experts examine burned areas and decipher the path of natural wildfire from managed ignited fires? Gatlinburg businesses look to rebuild after massive fire We are to be stewards of the land. Were these simply copy cat arsonists, arsonists with the most ridiculous stories to offer for why they lit these fires, or were they just cover-ups for something more sinister? I was in the area hiking November 21 and there was no smoke coming from the Chimneys area. It was very low on gas and fully covered with insurance. Arson charges dropped against teens accused in deadly Gatlinburg - WJLA A couple of weeks after hearing no hardcore news from Knox News, I wrote the editor asking if the News was still doing hardcore investigation of the fire. I wish the Feds had kept the case instead of handing it off to the local DA. But from what I have read the failure in this situation was in following procedure, so what can be added to have averted this fire and its terrible deadly consequences? I was on the Party Rock fire in NC and our IMET was predicting that storm event 3-4 days before it happened. Their soft wood holds a lot of moisture normally, but the conditions the past few months would have dried the limbs and outer layers up the trunk. Because we were heading home to Ohio early Tuesday morning, we packed our suitcases and put them in the car. If Knox media wanted to go after the NPS or someone else wanted them to, it is possible that even their timeline and investigation is slanted. Situational awareness to current and predicted variables, as well as the potential of possibility is key. The amount of dead Frazier fir and Spruce trees, caused by similar non-native infestation, is dramatic on Newfound Gap road, but mainly past The Chimneys at higher elevations. What really was going on here? They had identifiedon a map a 410-acre fire management area which, depending on weather conditions, may allow for further fire growth. Of course they wont. I am thankful so many are not only opening their eyes here, but taking action and questioning. They will be touched in their heart as deeply as anyone who has lost in the tragedy itself. I will not be looking for Gatlinburg or Sevier county first response personnel as those people will be grounded by a spineless group of county, city and NPS managers Who can only be described as cowardly indecisive. Compare the events to their fire management manual and contradictions are present. The radio conversation was fairly early in the day as I recall, maybe 7:30-8:00 am. The NPS investigation team has all this information and everything posted on Wildfire Today and a lot of info that was never made public. At any rate, I have not heard any knowledgeable person say acquiring resources during those first five days was a major difficulty. I realize the City of Gatlinburg is open and ready for business and business is booming, thats good for them but it doesnt help those of us that lost their home. Anyone who has toured the hillsides where most of the homes that were destroyed would know immediately how difficult evacuations would be. Which is pretty near chimney tops. This country was founded on open respectful discussion, such as this which has occurred in this article commentary and blog comments. Just looking at media coverage on the evacuation order public messaging snafu points out that this fire will provide many lessons learned for future fire managers. Instead, the city ordered evacuation of the neighborhoods nearest the NPS day use area that was on fire (Mynatt Park and others). He asked them if they could give us an update on the fire and they said no. (Originally published at 11:04 a.m. MST November 23 . When the rain started again at 8 a.m. the relative humidity rose into the 90s. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. My boys and I do not have images of wildfires that we would have seen had we waited to leave home. One Person Dead After Downtown Gatlinburg Fire Sunday Later it changed to a mandatory evacuation. We would best not be blind until that time is upon us, as then it will be too late. It is a primary source and illuminates some of the discussion topics that have been on Wildfire Today. Good points about differentiating between prescribed fire and the wildfire. It now seems obvious that no housing development should have only road in and out. I thought if we were have to leave we could take both vehicles to our friends house to sit out the night. This should be placed firmly on the shoulders of the Park Service, Cassius Cash, Superintendent and the City and County. I certainly hope the investigation of the totality of fire is not pressured to conclude prematurely. and last updated 4:48 AM, Apr 05, 2022. The facts are clear that this was not the appropriate action taking during the initial stages of the Chimney Top 2 wildfire. The earlier fire on the hill was named Chimney Tops hence the name Chimney Tops 2 for the new blaze. I hold you in my thoughts and prayers for healing and recovery there are others who have posted about their losses on this blog, Kelly for one, and I did not give myself peymidfipn to say these words to them at the time .. Very well put Mari. Kelly, Lloyd and anyone else that had home and/or businesses losses from the fire, tell everyone involved to write and/or call the governors office about what is going on. You have my utmost respect for firefighting; and Ive recently addressed a firefighter who was an apparent spokesman for the local media patty-caking. Just like the Mayor of Amity in Jaws. Case in point is our European religious history. Jody, you have said well what Ive wanted to say from my impressions made after the fire about this tragic situation. Things are changing slowly, and the human factors are unfortunately changing at a much slower pace than the climate and other socio-economic factors. They did too little, too late. Whatever happened to good old common sense decisions considering the drought, excessive fuels, and weather! Resources = $$$=taxes. We discussed what we would/could do if we had to evacuate. I told her when she does mine about my rebuild and my crooked contractor I will speak plenty about the ineptness of the NPS and local fire officials. Hong Kong skyscraper fire could mean $64M payout, cause under investigation As we drove south out of Pigeon Forge I took another photo before we entered the spur, which shows smoke and a red glow above Gatlinburg. The park should have been begging for help and putting out warnings all week end!!! I wonder when NPS actually put out a request for Incident Management Team support. Charges dismissed against boys, ages 17 and 15 after Gatlinburg - WITI Easy for many of you to sit back and Monday morning quarterback when you dont have skin in the game as I did. As long as there are watchdogs for the truth such yourself, it will be hard to bury. It was shaking the car as we drove. Jordans comments on the video indicates that their management was taking care to show how they were not responsible. Tunica, MS, from our area near Kansas City, to arrive late evening, that day, in Tunica. It was gorgeous -huge, huge trees, open forest floor, very dark, very cool, very moist. The wind remained at moderate strength on Wednesday with gusts decreasing from 37 at 3 a.m. to the lower teens by the end of the day. Yes, there is backside-covering going on. But until the review of the fire is complete and the report is published, I would be careful with a statement like this: The Chimney Tops fire was a wildfire being monitored given limited resources initially because of the many other ongoing fires in the region to which fire-fighting resources were committed. The Chimney Tops fire was a wildfire being monitored given limited resources initially because of the many other ongoing fires in the region to which fire-fighting resources were committed. From my back ground in fire, safety and as a fire investigator I see the development of a chain of multiple, unusual and totally unexpected events leading up to final blowup. Anticipating the fire season, firefighting resources (people and equipment) were brought in from around the Southeast and other parts of the country. As a citizen with a firefighting background, I knew days ahead of time that high mountain winds were expected in the Eastern TN/NC Mountains, coupling that with the extreme drought conditions and the knowledge of the massive amount of ground fuel available in the forest based on being in the forest regularly even just days prior, outside observing the conditions and the terrain. Everyone knew how dry it was. I dont understand, but I dont judge. We had hiked to the Chimneys for the view many times it was easy to see the wind being funneled down from there to Gatlinburg just like an invisible whitewater river. He yelled at Bates to get out, and Bates did leave before coming back without the worker knowing. Maybe within the next year, well see some kind of progress come together, said Neddo. I would like to know if the same two kids are also responsible for the first Chimney fire? The Spur between Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg is open from Pigeon Forge to the Gatlinburg Welcome Center. A stroke in 2011 left Akaka partially paralyzed and unable to speak but he didn't need words to express his joy to be reunited with it. Gatlinburg businesses look to rebuild after massive fire 1,000 feet of rise / 0.2 mile (1,056 feet) is a slope of 94.7%, not 77%. perish, but for the 14 who did, On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. It caused a shutdown . It is not just officials who have not caught up with the new climate reality, it is the general public and those in the path of fire. Not clouding the issues with the intent to take down a person. When we got to end of Beech Branch Rd., and turned onto Spur, there was no traffic but the winds were getting worse. These are the facts and simple truths that should not be ignored. One option could be helicopter fire repellers to repel into the fire and make an assessment of risk. Jeannine, what an awesome, in-depth and thoughtful response. I agree that there needs to to be a change of attitude about climate change, wildfire potential in the east, an adaptation to changing conditions and a throwing out of the holding on to the been there done that, know all there is to know, seen this before thinking and the holding onto a world that used to be. Hasnt anyone noticed that friends groups are paying for major park infrastructure and various other projects that our Congress has failed to provide for? Where the fire burned the valley floor, the desiccated hemlock burned freely and fully. We need to question everything and everyone with the same tenacious veracity as the other, but we also need to allow for humans to be human, and engage in the process of learning. The Thomas Divide Complex Fire comprises two wildfires the 140-acre Stone Pile Fire and the Cooper Creek Fire, which is estimated to be 170 acres. These folks do this often in situations in which they have little control over much of the situation or outcomes. Thanksfully ATF agents helped TN Bureau of Investigation put their full resources at hand and arrested to two teenage idiots that started the fire.

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